I have had a bit of fun tweaking the gentlemen at American Descent, especially in re their reflexive hatred of GLBT folk. Yet, I would be remiss if I didn't pause for a moment and remind anyone who might need reminding that the kind of fear and hatred exhibited there is, while amusing in a sick and twisted way, also indicative of a deeply disturbed individual.
When I first heard of Matthew Shepard's murder, I was hardly stunned; murdering a young man for the heinous crime of hitting on another man seemed par for the course for some people, like beating up a black man in the south, or a Chinese in California in another day and time. Yet, the more I thought about it, the angrier I became. Shepard was beaten to death for making the quite natural assumption that one of a pair of young men at a bar might be interested in a little fun. Rather than just say to him, "Sorry, dude, not the way I hang," they reacted in fear and rage and, after beating him, left him to die on the side of the road. Let me reiterate - Shepard's offense was making a pass at someone. That's it, and that's all. I say offense, because it is only offensive to someone whose mind is so twisted by bigotry as to believe it wrong for a young man in a bar to hit on someone.
I will not deny my own struggle with mixed feelings toward gay folk, especially when I was younger. I overcame it not because I am superior in some moral or personal way. Rather, I overcame it because I had friends who taught me a simple truth - they aren't gay people. They are people. They love a little differently from me, but then again, everyone else does, too. Some people would find my wife a knockout; others would just kind of shrug and say, "eh". Such is the way of the world. It's just difference, and a minor one at that.
Yet, such are the vagaries of the human animal that this minor difference is enough to spark a deep-seated rage among some people. It can become murderous.
I recently noted the passing of one of the dearest friend of my life, Steve Creech. Among his many wonderful qualities was his nonchalance about being out in a context where being out could very well be dangerous. I always thought he was so brave for that. I have known other folks, in situations that could or should have been far more comfortable and comforting and supportive who, for their own reasons, chose to keep their sexuality to themselves (I hate the term "closeted"; Larry Craig is closeted; some whom I have known have been open enough with those close to them, but just chose not to broadcast it far and wide). Steve, however, was just Steve, and being gay was about on a par for him with being legally blind. It was part of who he was, and he neither advertised it nor denied it.
The sickness on display over at American Descent in regard to gays and lesbians can be a source of amusement. It can also be, if not vented frequently, a source of danger. The kind of vitriolic hatred and bigotry there is the taproot of so much violence. While it is certainly fun to tweak them about their own latent homoeroticism (it surfaces so frequently), I think I should be honest enough to say that it can also be very frightening, too.
“This is the beginning of Bradford County,”
4 months ago
10 comments:
I have to say, even with all the fun I enjoy having at their expense, even I am surprised at the hatred and invective over "homos" and "fags" over there. If I didn't know better I'd swear I was reading Fred Phelps site. (And even though I usually make the charge in jest, I have to say, even I'm surprised at how their continued utter freaking out about "fags" and "homos" seems to make my case about their own insecurities. I've never had a single straight guy who was comfortable being straight use the words fag or homo.)
What is more surprising is not that it comes from Christians, because much of that talk does, sadly enough, come from Christians. And when called on it by anyone else, their attitude is not one of embarrassment, as any semi-rational adult would be at being discovered acting like a 3rd grader, but pride! Again that doesn't surprise me either, not from them, and not any more.
But I guess I'm surprised that there isn't even a single one of their own with the balls to call them out on it. I knew it was an echo chamber, but the level of group think is surprising. (Hey, who knew I could be an optimist?) Even Neil in his own way understands that Phelps goes too far, and I thought I remembered some place where MA also mentioned his dislike of Phelps' tactics, and yet the very same language coming from their own cronies gets no response. (Compare the "fags" and "homos" flying around on that blog with the current post at Neil's about how Christian's aren't hateful. It's actually pretty hilarious ... and sad.) Of course, the first one of them to call out another for all the "fag" and "homo" language will himself be called a "fag and a "homo".
Again, you know my thoughts on dealing with those sorts of ... people. And though I've made them clear, I'll ask again... There does come a time, does there not, when continuing to participate in such a forum becomes, itself, a questionable act? I would not, for example, have a debate on race with someone from the KKK, because it elevates their position to the level of one that deserves a response. You can't shut them up (and contrary to what they'd think, I wouldn't want to try) but enabling their behavior isn't doing them any favors either, eh? (Not to mention it's toxicity to you.) Who would they rant at and call fags and homos if neither you nor Dan went over there?
Just asking...
To address your last point, they would sit and fester in their own hate and delusion until the inevitable day one of them would snap and we'd read about them in the newspaper.
I refuse to darken Neil's doorway.
Yeah, Christians don't hate. Especially the ones who call others "false teachers" and "fake Christians". Hilarious it may be, but the fact that Neil has some kind of weird following disturbs me on some level.
Anyway, I understand your concern. I don't debate. In the words of occasional commenter Ben, I point and laugh. But, I understand your question and where it comes from. To be honest, I was surprised at the level at hatred and rage that poured out today. That was what prompted me to make this serious post. Of course, one can laugh because they are all so freaking clueless about their own hate. But we should never forget it is what it is - hate and rage. The kind of thing that triggers all sorts of atrocities.
I am struggling a bit along with Alan - I used to post on Neil's blog, and was invited to go away, and did. I was invited to go away from a local (Tulsa) blog of the same caliber, and did.
I posted at a Southern Baptist's blog for a while and while he did not invite me to leave (in fact I am pretty certain he wanted me to stay), I did not care for the abuse from other posters, and when he would not even ask them to be more civil in their discourse, I left. That was about a year ago.
Now via your blog I run across Descent. When I engage people of this sort, I try to see Christ in them, as I do all people, and attempt to engage them in respectful conversation. If it becomes too insulting or useless I leave or if I am asked to leave.
Time will tell how long I visit Descent, but I have vowed to seek and serve Christ in all persons and will endeavor to do so, as long as I am welcome - or until I feel my presence does more harm than good.
On the violent homophobia issue, a conservative Christin friend of mine (straight) was walking down the sidewalk with a male co-worker. Then a pick up pulled up and two guys in it started yelling 'faggot' and such at them.
They were so startled they just stood there, shocked. Then the guys suddenly threw empty beer bottles at them, hitting both guys. One hit my friend in the head, and staggered him. The men then took off and no one got a license plate number.
This incident has totally changed my friend's viewpoint on hate crimes and even gays in general. He now has gay friends (as I do), and understands the danger of homophobia to us all.
BTW, MIT, you may be aware of this already, but if we had hate crimes legislation, unlike the lies spread by the far right, it would cover such incidents. They are not laws designed to protect only LGBT folks, but anyone targeted based on sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation.
Preach it , Alan! ;)
We are not free, till we are ALL free.
Alan, just so you know, it hit me today as I sat and read yet another delusional post, that I cannot take the fall down the rabbit hole to American Descent anymore. Pointing and laughing is all well and good, but if one spends too much time in the freak show, the freaks start to look . . . normal. And the one pointing and laughing? That one is the freak.
In order to preserve some equanimity I am taking a bit of a hiatus, although I do note in passing that, with me gone that leave M-I-T, Dan, and Feodor left as sole commenters. These folks are so deranged even other right-wingers avoid them.
While I am not a fan of qualifying a specific assault as a "hate crime," (it's a pragmatic approach: as I generally view most assaults as hateful, and find the parsing to be particularly difficult) I certainly would hope that a judge would throw the book at such cases.
I've been in a very similar situation that M-I-T relates, when I was in my teen years. The two jackasses in the pickup yelling at my friend and I didn't realize, until after they got out of their truck, that we were riding our bikes back from FOOTBALL practice. Had I been Catholic, confession would have been necessary that Sunday. While that incident did not hit me like Paul on the road to Damascus at the time, it opened up my eyes a bit...
Geofrey, I'll try to drop in for at least a bit of balance over at AD. It won't tip the scales left, but maybe provide a little fulcrum. Remember. I'm a professional! :)
Okay, Geoffrey, I'm back. Ugh. There's not much to debate factually over there; It appears to be mostly name-calling and speculative opinion. But I'll keep my eyes open!
"As the good book says 'When you spit in the wind, it lands in your face.'"
Doc, I realize you are trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, but in truth, that site is a sinkhole of delusion, with naked hatred for gays on display. I have no doubt that all sorts of ugly prejudice would rear its head, given half the chance. Indeed, I have little doubt that, their protestations to the contrary, their fear and hatred of Obama is rooted as much in racism as it is in "political ideology". I put the last in quotes because I don't believe they have such, in the technical sense. It's a cover-all term for their very, very warped, fact-free spewing over their.
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